Concerts and Piano Teaching

On one sunny day, yet a day filled with thunderstorms and tornadoes, I went to Texas to see Van Cliburn. He seldom grants interviews and leads an isolated life, however, hearing that I knew many of the great musicians who were so important in his life, he invited me over to spend one afternoon at his huge mansion. It was a rare occasion to see such a wonderful humanitarian. I remember that I heard him play in Tokyo in 1969 when I was only 14 years old and at that time, I was also lucky to be able to go backstage to shake hands with him. Now, 27 years later, I again shook hands with him and sat on the sofa to talk to him…

AT: Thank you for today. I know that you have in the past expressed many ideas on education. Can you elaborate somewhat on how you think education should be shaped.

VC: Yes. In ancient Greece, education was divided into quadrivium and trivium. Plato in his book, Republic, included music as one of the obligatory subjects that had to be taught, together with mathematics and science. Of course the seven liberal arts, and these arts were according to Plato essential in the development of moral and intellectual qualities, were literature, logic, and rhetoric; and arithmetic, history, astronomy and music. As you see, music was part of education and was closely associated with moral qualities of a human being. In our present day situation, music education has taken a minor position. What people do not realize is that music is important to develop both hemispheres of the brain. Unfortunately, ignorance breeds only ignorance and we should never cease to educate people on the importance of music in their lives.

AT: I certainly understand this. Even in ancient Sparta, although the emphasis was on the physical attributes of the character and discipline was so rigorous, there was music development and in 7th century B.C., there were poets composing choral lyrics…

VC: yes, it only shows how important music was. Nowadays, there is unfortunately too much emphasis on the physical sports. There should be a balance.

AT: Can you tell us from how your philosophy of life was shaped…

VC: well, my mother was a wonderful human being. She was a great educator and teacher and one quotation of Plato she always said to me was: Always remember that music to the mind is same as air is to the lungs… How many times we forget and or do not realize this…it is a tragedy too, because that very air to their mind will give them life and happiness.

AT: Yes, it is very true, because being in music, you forget the very mundane..

VC: Yes…it transports you another plane of thought, another existence

AT: I know that there is Cliburn Foundation, Cliburn Competition, perhaps, now is the time to have Cliburn Academia..

VC: Oh my…but don’t you think that it is incredible that to be a teacher is such a responsibility…it is next to being a parent. To be a parent is a great responsibility, but to be a teacher is also a great responsibility…because you are helping a young child to create a thinking procedure. A great teacher is only a guide. Ultimately, the person must learn for himself or herself alone

AT: Yes…and that is perhaps Franz Liszt had so many fabulous students because he never forced his ideas…

VC: I agree. He never wanted his students to become “Franz Liszt” but they were to become themselves…he was only encouraging…and that is what my mother always did and said. As you know, she was Mr. Arthur Friedheim’s student and he was Liszt’s student and secretary for many years. The way Mr. Friedheim taught was that he never

wanted anyone to be like him. He only wanted each person to develop for himself because he realized that each person is so different.

AT: Another point which strikes me is that if Chopin lived longer what students would he have reared because for some strange twist of fate, we have Liszt’s students of whom so many became prominent musicians, however, in case of Chopin, we have only a few…

VC: I think that in a strange way, Chopin lived through Liszt who loved him so much. I remember so many things that Mr. Friedheim used to tell my mother about certain works of Chopin that Liszt had heard Chopin play. And of course, the op. 10 etudes of Chopin are dedicated to Liszt, and as I understand, the op. 25 etudes was to have been dedicated to Liszt, but you see, when you have that first hand experience, and after Chopin’s death, Liszt wrote a wonderful biography, I think that through Liszt, Chopin was still living. Liszt himself was a great humanitarian, a great man, a great soul…and a great observer and understander of life. He understood life so greatly…he didn’t just enjoy life…he understood life from a very adult point of view…he understood it from a transcendental point…which is very unusual. You may go through life and not understand it but he really understood it.

AT: I know that Alexander Siloti, who was Liszt’s student, wrote that Liszt and Chopin would always argue who played better the op. 25 # 2 etude in f-minor and how they would play it behind curtain for their friends, and when the friends would say that Liszt’s performance was better, Chopin would be so offended… but you see, this story also illustrates how well Liszt understood Chopin’s music.

VC: I didn’t know that story but how true and interesting it is. Also in Chopin’s works, it is not the speed, but the clarity that is so important…

AT: This brings me to another point, namely, your views on metronome marks…

VC: I think that the metronome marks have to be taken with caution…that sometimes there is an element of “fantasia”. You cannot take them literally because the tempo has to be adjusted to the circumstances and environment of the room…

AT: …because they say that the bigger the hall, the slower you have to play because it will sound faster…

VC: …Rachmaninoff said that and it is very true. If you play very evenly and play at a slow tempo, it will sound very fast.

AT: and so, what do you think about present day recording techniques. Of course it can be said that is so much easier to record now however, there are many difficulties raised too, and new problems created… On a CD, one has to play faster because of the lack of “air’ between the actual performer and the listener…

VC: Yes…and so to play in real life with the same speed, something disappears in the creative process of music…You can’t play so fast in actual life performance and shouldn’t do so…because music creating is so different when playing in front of an audience…

AT: I remember your wonderful performance of Liszt’s Hungarian Rhapsody No. 12…

VC: Thank you so much…my mother of course played many rhapsodies, including No. 2, and she often would say how Mr. Friedheim played them. Friedheim’s wife, Madeleine Friedheim was a singer and together they often gave lieder abends…When I was 7, 8, 9, 10 years old, I was a boy soprano and I did a lot of concerts as a singer. I believe that singing is a very important aspect of music-making, and that we often forget

that piano playing is a singing art. Often I would sing to myself the music I am playing and this singing tempo actually describes to me the actual tempo I should be performing the piece in. So many times, pianists play something fast, but if they were to sing it, it would be impossible to do so…because of the speed…and so, only by following the singing it is possible to come closer to the understanding of music tempo. I always try to think in terms of singing but consequently, I can’t play faster than I can hear the note before I strike it.

AT: I think it is the mark of a great artist that makes the listener become aware of the music…that makes us listen to the music.

VC: Yes…it is both a responsibility and a challenge. Now, as a performer yourself, don’t you think that the performances that you remember the most are the ones where you yourself learnt something about yourself…Those should be the times that you enjoyed and also learnt something new about yourself…because each time is a learning experience. We never completely know ourselves and in this life we should be constantly trying to learn about ourselves.

AT: And in this way, I don’t agree with those pianists who say that if they are awaken in the middle of the night, they can play exactly well and same as during regular hours…

VC: Yes…I agree…I could never do. They might be able…I am not disputing…but I couldn’t do it…and something does get lost in such a training…

AT: I think there is a balance; in gaining something, another thing is lost. Even such a great artist as Rachmaninoff, his playing was never the same. Just look at many recordings that Rachmaninoff was not happy with and didn’t allow for their public release.

VC: and he didn’t always enjoy being recorded…I know that Eugene Ormandy was telling me when he recorded the 3rd concerto…oh, he hated being recorded…he was such a performer…

AT: can you tell us something about Eugene Ormandy?

VC: Oh…Ormandy was such a great hero. He was a great human being and a great conductor. He could make music come alive. He allowed the members of the orchestra to express music…never a dictator. He was a wonderful collaborator. He was very psychic…very intuitive and he could sense what you wanted before even you said it in words. It was wonderful. He was extraordinary and I loved him. Do you know that he was also an opera conductor? Ormandy was really so extraordinary.

AT: With so many competitions almost rampant around the world, what are your views on present day competitions?

VC: I still think that the idea of competitions is a valid one because actually a competition is only an opportunity. It is only a door that gives a chance to be seen and give concerts. Everything else then depends on the person himself. I think that competitions have their place in the music society and they serve a wonderful function.

AT: As you know, in ancient Greece there were two branches of aesthetics: Dionysian and Apollonian…the first being an emotional outburst, while the Apollonian, an intellectual approach. In your education and performance philosophy, what do you follow?

VC: I think it is not a question of leaning on a certain path, but in music it is more a question that with music it can help and make you realize yourself. That is the main focus. I think any performer goes out must know himself…and remember that you

cannot be anyone else. You cannot be anyone else but yourself and you cannot prove anything because you can only “be”, so you must know yourself. Music is a marvelous instrument whereby a person can learn themselves. There are many psychological examples…we do not know if people see all the same things as we do and so we must be true to ourselves. With music and something as spiritual, it helps us to get in contact with ourselves.

AT: Music is a very spiritual discipline. One does not have to become a monk in a monastery and follow vows of discipline. Music is by itself, an invisible monastery and first we are just monks and one day become adepts…

VC: Well said…because we have to be alone, to spend a lot of time with ourselves…alone…in order to absorb this subject and so in that time of being alone, you must learn about yourself…

AT: yes…learn about your weaknesses and strengths…because nobody can be 100% strong…

VC: no way

AT: and this leads us to Beethoven and how you feel about him and what he did for music.

VC: well, there are many people, and I included, who feel that Beethoven was the first enthusiastic composer for the piano. He was a pianist and he knew the piano very, very well and we know from history that Liszt, too, had great passion for Beethoven’s music, and that the great statue of Beethoven in Bonn would not have been possible were it not for Liszt’s involvement in the project. So, Liszt was a great champion of Beethoven’s music, but he also was a friend of Chopin, so then when you think about it, Beethoven being a great influence, it is very logical. Beethoven must have felt what an inadequate instrument he had at that time. I am sure he would have been thrilled with the modern Steinway because it is so wonderfully resonant and fulfilling. We know from his writing for the piano that Beethoven must have been a great pianist. As far as the development is concerned, there are four principal pianists: Chopin, Liszt, Anton Rubinstein, and Rachmaninoff.

AT: And how do you view Mozart in relation to Beethoven?

VC: You don’t think Mozart as primarily a pianistic composer. I think you think of him more in terms of sustaining instruments. You think of his operas, you think of his symphonies, and of course, chamber music…at least I do…Beethoven was a thrust of energy into the piano and gave it a new dimension. He expanded the possibilities of the piano.

AT: You mentioned Rachmaninoff…

VC: Yes, Mr. Rachmaninoff was a great hero of mine and of my mother’s. He came to Shreveport in 1938 and my mother was in the committee that brought him to Shreveport and she was so thrilled. She came home that day, and I was only four years old and came down with chicken pox and I didn’t get to go to Rachmaninoff’s concert. She had heard him on several occasions through her life and I remember how minutely she would describe his playing. That particular night I was devastated that I could not hear him play. It was a great event for the city and they had it broadcast over the radio. My mother was so excited and she was backstage with him and would give him a glass of water and talk with him…He had such an impressive sound…a gorgeous tone quality. Some people have said that he was the greatest pianist that ever lived…

AT: Your affinity with Rachmaninoff’s 3rd Piano Concerto…could you say something about it? VC: Of course. I love that piece so much…such a great piece. You know that I love operas so much and that piece is always a one-act opera for me and I think that how wonderful that now I can sing all the major roles of the opera. You see, the 3rd concerto is really a one-movement piece if you look at it at a certain way and I always think of it as an opera. I have a story, which I can’t put exactly into words, but the concerto tells me a story…

AT: and these stories are very important, because, Sviatoslav Richter, for example, has a story for almost every Rachmaninoff’s Prelude that he has played…imagination is very important in the performance of a piece.

VC: I think that when a person realizes that he is there to give a total picture of music, then the imagination is very important because it also played a role in the creative process of the composer. It is communication…and performers should always remember that they are communicating and not just playing notes.

AT: And that again brings me to ancient Greek philosophy and education that debate was an important part of their curriculum. If you stop to think, debate is a communication, a device to communicate your ideas…and that is why debate, logic, and music were so important in Greek education. And in many places now, although they teach music, they don’t teach the imagination, the rhetoric of communicating ideas…

VC: I agree…that the clarity of communicating musical ideas is so often lost…

AT: and continuing about Russian music, where does Alexander Scriabin stand in your life? VC: Well, Scriabin was an incredible dreamer and was gifted with abundant imagination. His music is so full of color, myriad of color. It would have been interesting to see Scriabin and Rachmaninoff as young children in Moskow when they had to practice so hard. By the way, you know that the first performance of Rachmaninoff’s 3rd Piano Concerto was written for his visit of America in 1909 and so, we call it the “American Concerto”. Rachmaninoff was practicing it on the boat coming here and the debut was with Gustav Mahler as the conductor.

AT: How do you view the cadenzas for the 3rd concerto? VC: I prefer the alternate cadenza…the other one, how should I say, is a little more Lisztian than Russian for me.

AT: Have you ever played the 1st or the 4th concerto? VC: Not in public. I love the 1st and 2nd movements of the 1st concerto. Actually, I enjoy listening to them than to playing them.

AT: And what a beautiful theme for the opening of the 4th concerto, but I loose track after that

VC: Yes…a wonderful and extraordinary opening… I must say that I love very much the “Symphonic Dances” and that was a piece I conducted…I did 27 concerts as a conductor and I love that piece.

AT: What are your thoughts on other Russian composers…Medtner, Taneyev…

VC: Taneyev was a wonderful composer, and although he wrote little for piano, his Prelude and Fugue are very revered in Russia and the person who brought it to my attention was the conductor Dmitri Mitropolous who was a first-rate pianist himself and had played it in his early days. And he knew how very cherished Taneyev was in

Moscow Conservatory and he told me that I should learn it. In fact, it was he who helped me arrange and construct the program for the Tchaikovsky competition. Mitropolous’ advise was very invaluable and I prepared all the suggested works for going to the Tchaikowsky competition.? AT: How do you see music performance? VC: All art and sound is an illusion. What you are faced with, your challenge, when it comes to communicating a piece of music, it must be that you make it in a perspective from the stage to the audience so that you always give the illusion of whatever forte or fortissimo, or piano and pianissimo, because even in the strongest fortississimo, there must be a singing sound. It does not mean loud; it means singing openly, with a full throat.

AT: and I think it there that your art is so different from many others in that your playing always had a singing quality to it…

VC: as I was saying to a young child once: if you can hang on to the “eye” of the sound…eye as in “eye” of a typhoon or hurricane…because every sound has its own “eye” so when you are playing, you cannot play faster than you can hang onto the “eye” of the sound…

AT: so, in fact music does not start with the moment the note is struck, but somewhere after it is struck…before the sound dies…

VC: yes, because it is the time when the sound penetrates the listener

AT: Now, with the Tchaikowsky Piano Concerto No. 1, what are you thoughts? VC: That is a definite story. It could be an opera or a ballet because the introduction takes place in the great hall of the tsar and they are with the prince and princesses. The cadenza in the beginning is the tsar speaking to his boyars (ministers) and then, when the melody resumes, they take their places. After, a page-servant comes out to announce the beginning of a ballet. It is a three act. Tchaikowsky wrote like Mozart and the concerto is far from being just flamboyant piece. The concerto is made of big wonderful sounds but follows a classical pattern. It is a wonderful story.

AT: But don’t you think that Anton Rubinstein is somewhat underappreciated as a composer…

VC: Yes, he wrote some wonderful things and if I recall correctly, the last competition in Russia was held in 1905 and the required piece was Rubinstein concerto No. 5, which is a wonderful piece in itself. He himself was such a wonderful artist… AT: I know that Hans von Bulow used to complain that Anton Rubinstein could play wrong notes by basketful, but he himself wasn’t allowed any wrong note to play!

VC: and another interesting thing about the Tchaikowsky concerto is that the premier was in Boston with Hans von Bulow. Again both Rachmaninoff and Tchaikowsky concertos had their premiers in Boston. According to the reviews of that time, it was so highly acclaimed, that they were asked to repeat the third movement again.

AT: But that tradition was widely accepted because I know that when my father was studying with Emil Sauer in Vienna in 1930s, he went to hear Ignaz Friedman and during the performance of Chopin’s complete Preludes, the public began to applaud so much after no. 16, that Friedman had to stop and repeat it again! Those were wonderful signs how public could interplay with the performance and there was mutual communication going on at all times of the performance…not just at the end of the piece.

VC: Yes…the audience were more spontaneous and it was good.

AT: After your winning the Tchaikowsky competition, were you in charge of the programming or your manager? VC: No…I had no problems with programming. Because mainly I think there are only three real piano concerti: Tchaikowsky No. 1, Rachmaninoff No. 3, and Brahms No. 2. So if people want to hear them then there is a very good reason why these concerti are loved. All you have to do is to examine the score and you will know immediately why. When people want to hear the Tchaikowsky over and over, I have no problem because I love the piece and still do so. I always find great pleasure in that piece. It is not something you take ever for granted, but actually in classical music, there is nothing one can ever take for granted. If it is a classical composition, it is always fresh and new…

If you take it for granted, you will get a big surprise. The Brahms No. 2 is such a philosophical piece that it takes you to another world. I can say that Brahms Concerto No. 1 is “young man trying to be old” but the 2nd concerto is “older man knowing that he is young, eternally young…”

AT: are there any other pieces that have a special meaning for you?

VC: Yes…Stravinsky’s Petrouchka. I was learning that piece when I had a chance to hear Emil Gilels play it. Oh, what a wonderful pianist he was. But you cannot imagine how well he played Petrouchka. It was unbelievable. The whole music was a colorful ballet. Not fast, as many pianists take it now…just so powerful and so wonderful. It was a marvelous experience. Of course, after hearing Gilels, I put away the music. It was just a natural thing to do.

AT: As I sit now with you, I feel a little sad because I feel that the whole world should know what a wonderful humanitarian you are and how much you are concerned about the world.

VC: yes…history, philosophy, education, all the liberal arts should come together and influence the person and it should help him to become a better human being. We all should contribute something good to the world…

AT: What advice do you have for the young aspirants?

VC: you must realize that this is a vocation and that you must accept it, for better or worse, because it becomes your life...it is your life, and it is not just for today, but it is also for tomorrow. The sacrifices and the time must be given lovingly and that performing is something you love above all else because your life cannot be complete without it.

AT: Thank you for a wonderful day.

VC: And thank you for such an interview. You are a wonderful human being to be around. Thank you.